Welcome to Brazos Matters.

I'm Jay Socol, and co-hosting with me today is Avery Foster, a Texas A&M journalism major.

And KAMU content contributor.

Today we are digging into the reality of dating apps the habits, the patterns, and what keeps people swiping long after that first match starts with downloading the app.

Then you create the profile.

You scroll through your camera roll.

You look for the perfect picture and crafting a bio that's just the right mix of charming and clever.

But as simple as all that sounds, dating today is not easy, especially when social media turns the whole thing into a game.

The apps have slogans like designed to be deleted or make the first move, but behind the catchy slogans is something we don't always talk about.

How addictive the platforms can really be.

So our guest today is here to shed light on the addictive nature of dating apps and the mental struggles that users often face while navigating them, as well as some healthier alternatives to consider.

So with us today is Cameron House, a licensed professional counselor in Bryan who works as a private practice psychotherapist.

She has also held leadership roles in corporate behavioral health settings.

Cameron, thanks for being here.

Thanks for having me.

Absolutely.

A pleasure to have you here.

So much fun.

Avery, take it away.

We're so glad that you're here.

Thank you.

I'm really excited to talk about, you know, this topic today.

So originally, before we even settled, we asked you for a list of trends that you're seeing today.

So why is this the most important one to you?

Well, I just hear a lot about it.

And, you know, I think I'm in the business of human connection.

Most of the reasons that people come to see me is because they're having difficulty in some of their connections or having.

And so, you know, this one comes up a lot.

And I'm seeing some, some concerning things.

And I've had to sort of walk a lot of people through, what are we doing here in 2025.

Yeah.

What about generational differences?

Do you have a fairly wide range of of ages.

They come to you with some kind of issues related to this, because I have friends my age who are using these, but obviously they're probably optimized for a younger crowd.

Yeah.

I mean, I think any anybody that's looking for a partner or, you know, looking for some connection looking, you know, people are use this is how it's done.

This is what we hear.

And, you know, it's the easy thing.

You can just download something and enter into the world for that.

So no, it's I know the young folks, you know, like yourself.

This has been always the case.

But, for the old people like us, then it's brand new.

But it's it's the number one way people start to to look for connection.

Who tends to come in front of you, though?

Gender and age.

I mean, mostly women come to therapy.

Let's be honest.

You know, it's true.

I know, I know, despite they need.

I'm getting, But, Yeah, I mean, I've got a lot of just middle aged folks, too, you know?

I mean, that are, you know, out of a committed relationship, you know, starting a new life and, and, and and entering into possibly a whole new world.

You know, this was, you know, we met people in college or at church or at work, you know, and now it's done differently.

And so it's a new landscape.

So, so walking them through that newness is interesting.

And then and then walking younger people through just sort of the, the mind games and, and the confusion I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So some interesting research that I was doing before, you know, we, we got to the questions is I found an article about a lawsuit that was filed against match Group, which is the owner of hinge, Tinder and a more exclusive dating app called latch.

And what the, lawsuit was stating was that a group of consumers were, you know, suing because they believed that dating apps are addictive.

And so I kind of want to know from your professional standpoint, do you believe that these corporate companies are profiting off of, you know, consumers emotional vulnerability?

I absolutely, and when I read that lawsuit, I thought to myself, okay, you know, did you really think that they weren't, you know, a for profit company that that they really were this, you know, here I am, I'm going to put myself out of business.

I'm going to find everybody a partner and then, you know, and then we'll close shop.

That's not what's happening.

And so I found the lawsuit to be a little, you know, I don't know, I think it look, if it's on your phone and it's some app you download, it probably has an algorithm or an ability to addict your brain.

That's what's happening, you know, go to any waiting room now, these days anyway, everybody faces in their phones.

So the phones are addictive, the apps are addictive.

The gamification of anything.

That's what keeps us in.

And so I don't think we should be surprised that dating apps are doing that either.

So there's no question that they are meant for engagement.

So there's no question that they are meant for engagement.

That's what the business is to keep you engaged.

So of course, that is antithetical to finding you a person and sending you on your way.

Right.

So, so there's no question that it is like a slot machine that's that intermittent reinforcement.

I get a little hit, and then I don't and I don't and I don't, and then I do, and then I don't, and I do, you know, and that's what most of the apps are built on.

and that's what most of the apps are built on.

But Cameron is they say it's designed to be deleted.

Yeah.

That's they said it.

I mean I can hear the decision for that little like line in, in a, in a meeting at the place I can think like, oh well, you know, they're saying we're not really here to find a partner.

What do we do.

Oh how about this will say, you know, it's like, okay, that's you know, it gives us a little like okay.

Yeah.

No it's not it's not designed to be deleted.

Definitely with the subscription purposes and those aiming towards, you know, getting you to buy these more exclusive features.

Absolutely.

Our little brain sees that, you know, red, red dots that somebody liked you and and how many people liked you, but you can't see them, you know, I mean, it's just built that way.

Your little brain says, oh, I got to go get that.

Well, that's going to be 29, 99 a month, you know.

So, and yeah, I mean, I'm afraid that's the deal.

It can.

Yeah.

Listen, they say 1 in 10 people are meeting their long term partner on these apps.

Okay, great.

That's so it's not that it's a total, you know, sham, but let's be honest, it is absolutely meant to keep people engaged first and foremost, right?

Yeah.

And on that note, when we had our discussion, we were speaking about how dating apps are backwards.

Yeah.

You form this illusion of a person strictly just through basic, you know, needs that the dating apps give you.

Right.

So like, why is this a problem for people trying to develop a connection.

Yeah.

Well it just kind of occurred to me that, you know.

Yeah.

The dating apps for me, it's everything is backwards.

You know, when you meet someone in the wild, you know, the first thing, you might notice their physical appearance.

But more than anything, it is that that there's just that vibe.

There's just something that that's very present.

And physical.

And between the two of you.

And that's where it starts.

And then you might learn what their job is, and then you might learn, you know, that kind of thing, but more that's the first thing.

And, and so I think the dating apps do everything backwards, sort of like what you're saying, which is I'm going to curate this version of myself.

Right.

Very particularly, and I'm going to curate exactly what I want to put across just so slightly and give you a very, you know, sort of surface level take, and, and.

Yeah, and then then we match on that and then we start to have a conversation.

It just to me feels so backwards and we end up then building an illusion and a version of this person based on these pieces of data they've provided that I come up with.

Right.

Based on my, you know what my world and not necessarily at all what they are doesn't mean what they are isn't attractive, but it's not what I formed in my head.

So I just feel the whole way, feels just, yeah, backwards.

Yeah.

But because these dating apps are so ubiquitous now, are we?

Are you experiencing young people who think this is how it's supposed to be?

This is the norm, right?

Right.

Absolutely.

Well, and think about if I get on a dating app as a young person and I think, okay, this is it, this is the place.

And I'm having not very much luck because, you know, perhaps the algorithm are meant to sort of just give me enough, but not not too much to have me go away or if I, you know, kind of build what I think is a connection with somebody.

And then maybe I meet them.

And so I begin to internalize that.

I begin to think, wow, I you know, what's happening here, you know, and and yeah, I begin to sort of think, well, either I externalize it, which is that there's nobody good out there, right?

Or I internalize it, which is that I'm no good and I'm not desirable.

I'm not, you know, and that I think that's what that's what the result can be a lot of times.

And so we end up kind of painting a picture of what we think the dating world looks like.

That's really cynical and sad.

If you just tuned in, I'm Jay Socol, you're listening to Brazos Matters.

We're visiting with Cameron House, a licensed professional counselor who is unpacking the psychological grip of dating apps and the mental health challenges they pose while guiding us toward more mindful alternatives and healthier ways to connect.

So relationships, through technology, I think you've said, tend to be one dimensional.

Develops false intimacy.

So talk more about why people should just stay clear of this form of communication in general.

Well, you know, I might not be saying stay clear of it.

Right.

But but go in knowing what it is.

First, know that you are going in to use a digital app that is meant to play with your brain and keep you coming back.

Be conscious of that.

Know that.

Okay, so if you can go in with that, and then I also also to be aware of something that you said, which is this false intimacy.

I really think that's important.

Again, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm going I'm finding I'm swiping I'm making a person in my head.

What's the first thing that we do when we match with somebody on these things is we end up messaging in the app usually, which is a form of text messaging.

Right.

And it's just I find text messaging is a very intimate sort of thing.

It's just between you and me and it's, you know, no one's here, no one's looking.

And so it's a very intimate conversation that I'm suddenly having with this person that I have built this connection with in my head.

And, you know, wherever that conversation goes usually goes on for a bit, you know, and a lot of people say they it's more comfortable to kind of hang out texting, you know, for a bit before you decide to jump into, you know, real life.

And so there's again, sort of this.

Yeah, let's it's like a hot wired connection that's not really there.

And so your brain starts getting excited and, but and and so I think that's kind of also sort of damaging to so I guess be aware watch yourself.

Like know that that's what I think I'm asking people to certainly don't not use them.

It is.

But it is to, to understand what it is and what it is not.

Yeah.

I'm sorry.

And, you did mention something about convenience over courage.

Is that absolutely play a role.

And yeah, this is probably where I get in trouble, maybe a little bit because it sounds judgmental.

But let's be honest.

I mean, I think if you're ambivalent about partnership and I'll say that, you know, there are, you know, young folks who are coming in and have, you know, I'd like to get married, I'd like to have a family or I want a partner.

That's all wonderful.

If you've got folks that maybe have been through a full relationship, you know, they they might feel a little ambivalent about.

Do I want a partner?

I'm not sure.

You know, do I so that's a great place to go.

You know, be, you know, sort of connected when I'm not sure have one foot out, one foot in.

And so dating apps.

Very convenient right.

I don't know.

I'll download them.

So so there's a little bit of that.

And so I think what happens is you know it's a little lazy.

I have to be honest with you.

I feel like it's just a little bit lazy, which I get because maybe there's I'm not sure I want to do this.

So the dating apps are kind of a lazy way.

You know, that's kind of a mean thing to say, to sort of stick your foot out there.

And so then I think you're kind of going to get what you put out there a little bit, you know, I liken it to, you know, I'm, I'm a therapist and I really like, in person sessions.

Right?

I was a terrible Covid therapist.

Like, I was like, I was just watching the clock.

I'm sorry to all my clients.

I hope you didn't notice, but there was just not very much togetherness that so.

But one of the things I noticed is that there are some people that when thinking about getting into therapy, right?

And so rather than going through the courageous, which I think it's very courageous of looking for a good person, you know, meeting someone in person, looking for the right therapist, you know, it's it takes a lot of guts, takes a lot of vulnerability.

Some people just fire up some of these websites where you can get a subscription to be a therapist on online and, you know, I think and what one of the they'll go on named, websites that do these therapist things or, you know, they say, oh, you can change therapist anytime, right?

And it's like, it's not the it's a relationship.

Yeah, it's a relationship.

It's a sacred, intimate relationship.

Right.

So, so I, I notice I did work for I did some of that while in, during Covid.

I thought, well, I'm sitting here, I might as well.

But I just noticed that the buy in for folks, was a little less than those that came in person.

So it's not to say people who are doing telehealth, all you know are it's just.

And so it made me think of the dating apps as well.

Is is really kind of holding back my vulnerability and just sort of sticking my toe out there rather than being bold and getting out there.

So that's yeah, it's kind of what I, what I was thinking about when I was talking about courage over connection.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I want to go back to the to the lazy part.

Yeah.

I had to bring it back to me, didn't you?

When you are working with a client, you might point out to him or her that, hey, this is kind of a lazy way to go about things.

Is, is your client kind of shocked to hear you throw that label?

I don't think I don't use that word.

Do you know I'm being a little dramatic in here?

You know, I just said that to Avery, but no, I'm.

No, I did use it.

I mean, no, I think what I would say to the client is, hey, listen, like, I think you are pretty ambivalent about this.

I think you're not sure.

I think you're afraid of getting hurt.

You're afraid of, of of rejection.

You're afraid of the awkwardness.

You're kind of not sure it's worth it, you know?

And you're not sure.

Especially if you've kind of been on the dating apps a bit and had some bad experiences.

So, you know, you're you're going to kind of get what you put into it a little bit.

So I would say, you know, if you really want this, first of all, let's look at well, do you want something.

Yeah.

And what do you want and what are your standards.

Right.

Don't get swept up by someone's curated stuff online.

But then to decide, do I really want a partner and I want it, I want this person to value these things.

Okay, well, what would a really brave way, bold way to meet someone like that look like?

Maybe there's, you know, an extreme here, but we could work our way back.

But I think, I think the dating apps, you know it.

Do I think you have to look at your motivation there?

Yeah.

In your experience, have you seen behavioral changes from people who have spent so much time within these apps.

Yeah I mean I think it's, it's not good for your self-esteem.

It's very again it's, it's you know builds that cynicism either that there's nobody good out there or that I'm not desirable.

Right.

But it's so easy for people to ghost you, to not respond to match with you and not say anything.

And what do we do as human beings when we have no information?

We always fill it with bad information.

You know, we always fill it with, oh, they didn't like me.

I wasn't, you know, this enough, that enough, all of that stuff.

And so that all pours into us, telling us about ourselves.

You know, no matter how mature we think we are, we still take those messages about ourselves.

And that's not good for the self-esteem.

Yeah, right.

And, and, and there's just there could be some real hopelessness about that.

And, you know, and so I really tell people your desire for human connection is extremely natural and extremely healthy.

And this is not really an indication that you are not lovable or desirable or that there are no people out there anymore to connect with, trying to get, like, a reality check a little bit.

Yeah.

So in a lot of the research that Avery did for this conversation, she was finding evidence of some, some physical characteristics and physical changes in habits and things.

And, Avery, would you bring those up, things that people actually do with her fingers and so forth?

Yeah.

So one of them that I was looking at is called Twitchy Fingers.

So it's a physiological pattern correlated with technology characterized by rapid movement.

And then another one being faceism which is the tendency to stereotype individuals based on their facial appearance.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm not surprised to hear that at all.

That's I mean, there's a lot of research about, you know, people looking at a face and making a determination about what they think about that person now, without question.

So that's that's what you're getting, you know, with the dating apps, is this, you know, curated picture.

Yeah.

The same kind of thing.

I'm not surprised about that.

I just I hate my phone and I love my phone and, and we've got to be careful because these are little computers that are there.

They're in our brain and, you know, and it's it's we gotta we gotta know what they are and understand their benefits, but also realize that these computers know our brains and know how to get us to come back and do what they need.

And it's to me a little scary.

Yeah.

Adding on to the note of like ghosting and matching and being able to just, you know, clear personnel together.

We talked about this idea of cultivating the opposite effect.

You negate a person's feelings or emotions.

By just avoiding and obviously I think I kind of know why people resort to these behaviors.

But from your standpoint, what what do you see?

Because it's easy.

It's easy.

It's it's it's harder and more vulnerable to say, hey, you know, I'm, you know, I've enjoyed talking with you.

I just don't know that I'm feeling a connection.

And I really wish you the best.

And, I mean, that's the honorable thing to do.

That, from my mind, anyway, is treating someone how you'd like to be treated.

Do I want to be rejected?

If I like this person?

No.

But what?

I like it if they were clear with me and and communicative and polite and yeah, I would love that.

But it's easier.

It's because the connection is not that real.

And what's going to happen?

They're not going to find you.

No one's going to be mad at you.

They're not going to know.

And so it and and the here's the thing, human connection happens most deeply when we are vulnerable with each other.

You know, when we have a rupture in a friendship that we then repair, that friendship gets deeper.

You know, so, so this is trying to get all the benefits of connection, which I don't even think it is a connection, but with no risk.

You know, no vulnerability.

And that's not where real human connection comes from.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously when we had our pre discussion chat, we kind of talked about the people who are more susceptible to getting on dating apps.

They're the kind of people who are like, oh my God, I want a modern romance story, you know, kind of the delusion of it all.

Yeah.

And I just want to know, like, why is this a red flag?

And what do you see, in people who, do, you know, go on dating apps and act like this?

Well, again, this is gonna be another hot take from Cameron and I might get blowback for.

But, you know, I think that the modern romance rom com that you see that that, is actually attachment wound bonding.

You know, when you see we I can't live without you.

You complete me, you know, within, you know, ten days like, you know, that is actually me having an attachment wound.

That's another shot.

You just mark it down.

Attachment coming soon.

You know, sort of a of a of an a of a relational deficit that probably comes from childhood trauma.

Another show.

But, you know, like, and so, you know, it's so when things happen real fast, there's a fast connection.

I can't, you know, that's a red flag, like good human connection or built slow.

You know, kind of slowly.

And, and so I might say to answer your question that it could be that folks that, you know, didn't get the security judgment that they might need from their families of origin or other relationships, might be really wanting and more desperate to find that connection.

And, and more willing to kind of look aside from red flags just to have that need met, that, you know, we could have hoped that they might have come to the table having already had met.

And so I think those folks are more susceptible.

And then when the dating apps send the message, you're not desirable.

All of that, boy that just that confirmation bias that I didn't think so I didn't think I was lovable.

That becomes a real cycle.

That can be very distressing.

Yeah.

Okay.

So with our few minutes remaining, yeah.

I want you to help viewers and listeners with some simple leave behind some advice here.

So if, maybe it's people who don't currently use a dating app, but they're thinking about it, the people who are already using them, and maybe those who are absolutely addicted to them.

Yeah.

So so give us some helpful steps here.

Like I'll, I'll work backwards.

Okay.

That the people that are actually addicted to them, I mean, I think you have to treat it like an addiction.

Yeah.

I think you need to, go to what, rehab quote unquote.

Like I would say, go get some, go get a therapist.

It doesn't have to be me, you know, but, you know, but go see somebody and and and work with them to help you reduce harm.

Right.

Which could look like deleting the apps, hiding them, only agreeing to go on for a little bit, that kind of thing.

You could really reduce that and explore with the therapist what's happening.

I think that would be a good thing for folks that are using the dating app.

I really, I would say wake up a little bit.

This is a business.

The little red dots and all of those things that are sucking you back in, you know, be a little cynical about it and try to use, you know, and I recommend people that are using the dating apps.

If you batch with somebody, do a FaceTime call quickly, like soon, like, hey, I like you, I like you too.

This is great.

Okay.

And then get the vibe, get out of the you get out of the app.

I mean, now I understand you're like, okay, safety camera.

They have my phone number.

I don't know whatever safe way you want, but get get the physical, you know, get a take the voice.

You know that's such a difference.

I think that makes a big difference because very quickly, without going on too long, you can you can get a feel, and, and so and then, you know, have a coffee or whatever.

But pretty soon I think move to that is, is a way to make the best of the apps and get to the good stuff, you know?

Yeah, that's what I would say.

Now, people that you know that aren't, I mean, or the advice of people that want to get off of them a little bit is, you know, you got to get out there.

It doesn't happen.

It's not at a bar necessarily like that.

But my favorite thing to say is go, be and do things that you love.

Explore those things with folks that you think you might also meet.

So it's sort of a shared experience if you love to do pottery or you love this or you like, you know, go and do the things, put yourself out there.

But it doesn't have to be at a singles thing.

But, you know, just meeting other people for that shared experience.

I think that's a very important thing.

And then.

Yeah, and then it's like, how often are you are you engaging people in conversation?

You know, if you know, like I said, we're in the waiting room all looking at our phones.

It's like, how about, hey, that's a great t shirt.

I love that band.

You know, you can engage people.

How often are we doing that?

We're not talking to each other anymore.

And so I think that's another big piece to, you know, so you've got 12 kids.

What what advice if you give them about dating?

Yeah.

They're not asking me any advice.

No no no no, I. Yeah I it's funny, I have not talked to them about I mean my kids have all sort of found their own partners.

They've each had, you know, a pretty significant other that they've met very organic.

Although I was talking, one of my sons met his lovely girlfriend.

Long term girlfriend, on the video game where they do the games together.

You can tell I don't do them because I have no idea how it works.

But they're playing.

They're having a shared experience.

They're doing something together, getting to know each other and, you know, connecting.

And so I remember when he first told me, I was like, oh, that's just weird.

It's not a real that's not a real friendship.

And then I remember waking up and saying, I mustn't discount my son's very dear connections, even though they might be across the world.

These are very close friends.

And and so, yeah, he met her and she's lovely.

We love her to death.

And she moved here.

And so that's not a dating app that is online, right.

So I don't want to totally discount that.

But, yeah, but the kids, yeah, they the kids do it all right by themselves.

Yeah.

I mean, my sister also has an online boyfriend as well that she met through, video games as well.

So it's like, you never know.

But there is that again, that common interest that you do find through there.

That's right.

It's it's.

Yeah.

Go and be out there and and have shared experiences and you know, because then maybe you're just bowling and you like bowling.

Great.

But maybe you're bowling with a bunch of other folks who also like bowling.

And one of them turns out to be hot, you know, and, and you end up who knows?

You know, but that way it's a little easier to to tolerate, I think.

Yeah.

So any parting shots with a final few seconds?

You got to have courage.

You, I had a dear friend tell me one time, you know, she said, I find you got to know what you're putting out there in the universe.

Like, do you want this?

Why do you want it?

Who do you want?

Do you mean it?

Don't just go out there and get some hit or supply to your ego.

That's a lot of what the dating apps are, too.

If you want this, go and out there and do it intentionally.

That's what I think in person.

Cameron House, thank you for being here with us.

Thank you for having me.

It's been wonderful.

Do you get that list of other things you're going to talk to me about?

Absolutely.

We'll be in touch.

Through an app.

Brazos matters is a production of Aggieland's Public Radio 90.9 KAMU-FM.

A member of Texas A&M University's Division of Community Engagement, our show is engineered and edited by Matt Dittman.

All Brazos Matters episodes are available on YouTube and on podcast platforms like Spotify, Apple, iHeart, and Amazon, also on the NPR app and on the KAMU website.

For Avery Foster.

I am Jay Socol.

Thanks so much for watching and listening to Brazos Matters.

Have a great day.